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	<title>Comments on: Turning Down Jobs</title>
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	<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/</link>
	<description>Photography Director Rob Haggart</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Matt Allan</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-15659</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Allan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 05:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-15659</guid>
		<description>This is a very good blog topic and it certainly seems to be a sound theory... I might seriously think about employing this tactic in the future to see how it turns out.

On a side-note: I have posted a link to this topic on my own blog... hope you don't mind?

http://disenchantedphotography.wordpress.com/

Cheers,
Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very good blog topic and it certainly seems to be a sound theory&#8230; I might seriously think about employing this tactic in the future to see how it turns out.</p>
<p>On a side-note: I have posted a link to this topic on my own blog&#8230; hope you don&#8217;t mind?</p>
<p><a href="http://disenchantedphotography.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">http://disenchantedphotography.wordpress.com/</a></p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Matt</p>
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		<title>By: An Interesting Read &#171; Disenchanted Photography</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-15650</link>
		<dc:creator>An Interesting Read &#171; Disenchanted Photography</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 04:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-15650</guid>
		<description>[...] Interesting&#160;Read  Turning Down Jobs by Photography Director Rob [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Interesting&nbsp;Read  Turning Down Jobs by Photography Director Rob [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Hamilton</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-13105</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-13105</guid>
		<description>@hexfire:

"Its the luxury of established photographers to have the ability to turn down photography projects."

For a photographer just starting out, the word "no" is literally the ONLY tool they have in their negotiations with potential clients.  You have no reputation to lean on.  There is no prestige associated with your name.  There is no publicity from hiring you for the job.  Your portfolio is skimpy and under-developed, and taking a job that isn't in-line with your career goals isn't going to help it.

The word "no" is your only tool and your best friend when you're laying the foundations for your future work.

That realization is what gave me hope and inspired me to stay true to myself and pursue the career that I really want, rather than shoot what I think people will buy.

If you consider the word "no" a luxury reserved for the well-established, your career as a photographer is doomed.

If you don't let your artistic vision develop your body of work, you'll find yourself competing based on price rather than competing based on your talent and abilities, and in a competitive market like photography, if you're competing based on price, you'll price yourself into poverty very quickly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@hexfire:</p>
<p>&#8220;Its the luxury of established photographers to have the ability to turn down photography projects.&#8221;</p>
<p>For a photographer just starting out, the word &#8220;no&#8221; is literally the ONLY tool they have in their negotiations with potential clients.  You have no reputation to lean on.  There is no prestige associated with your name.  There is no publicity from hiring you for the job.  Your portfolio is skimpy and under-developed, and taking a job that isn&#8217;t in-line with your career goals isn&#8217;t going to help it.</p>
<p>The word &#8220;no&#8221; is your only tool and your best friend when you&#8217;re laying the foundations for your future work.</p>
<p>That realization is what gave me hope and inspired me to stay true to myself and pursue the career that I really want, rather than shoot what I think people will buy.</p>
<p>If you consider the word &#8220;no&#8221; a luxury reserved for the well-established, your career as a photographer is doomed.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t let your artistic vision develop your body of work, you&#8217;ll find yourself competing based on price rather than competing based on your talent and abilities, and in a competitive market like photography, if you&#8217;re competing based on price, you&#8217;ll price yourself into poverty very quickly!</p>
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		<title>By: francx</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12858</link>
		<dc:creator>francx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12858</guid>
		<description>P.s with regards previous mail.. i am looking for genuine feed back and useful advice on how to overcome the disenfranchised and sometimes dispiriting existance of being a photographer and how to stay focused on ones raison d'etre in an overly saturated market where everyones a creative!

:-) no smart ass comments i am genuinely disillusioned!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.s with regards previous mail.. i am looking for genuine feed back and useful advice on how to overcome the disenfranchised and sometimes dispiriting existance of being a photographer and how to stay focused on ones raison d&#8217;etre in an overly saturated market where everyones a creative!</p>
<p> <img src='http://aphotoeditor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> no smart ass comments i am genuinely disillusioned!</p>
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		<title>By: francx</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12855</link>
		<dc:creator>francx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12855</guid>
		<description>1st want to say what a wonderful site this is here,it might just be my saviour,just when i thought all was lost.
Why wait tables when you can make money from doing what you do?
It's foolish to say make money else where while you are waiting for your big break..its not hollywood and waiting tables is never going to even match a 1/4 page rate you gotta eat and as iblink said why not work at doing what you enjoy?

I would encourage all young photographers to get what work you can to start with, get used to dealing with clients use every job as a test, a stepping stone,but above all do it to the best of your ability dont be cynical and precious.
Use every experience for personal testing ground and growth.
You might just protect your name and image for too long then.. wham you hit 35/40 you have evolved and no longer have the inclination or strength emotionally or physically to do the daily schmooze with these "arty" jobsworths with no personal refrences. 
If only i could tell you of  the amount of photo EDs/ADs i met over the years who fell into the job with no credentials via some obscure connection to the media. 
Lots of these guys wouldnt know a true visionary if they saw one they often come in from nowhere and learn the blag very quickly then the next minute they are looking at your book (with images equal to if not sometimes better than anything they have in their publication) and saying oh might be able to give you an opening page and your back to where you started. 
Why does none talk of the closed network? In my opinion no matter how good your work is, if your face doesnt fit or you have not spent a larger part of you career constantly brown nosing hassling or schmoozing the right people you can forget getting a foot in the door especially at the top level.
Now before you start dont think this is all sour grapes honestly i have worked at top end of editorial and often at the lower with no credit,both got me no where because there is no INTEGRITY!
I had to fight to get every prestige/crap job and hold onto it untill client or me tired of each other and moved on.
The whole industry is stitched up everyones busy,no one takes calls or looks at emails anymore (Unless from a direct known contact or agent)
No one is prepared to take any chances its often the old tried and tested (i.e came up through the ranks together became friends the rest is history or you assisted mario or such and such) formulas wins time and time again, its a fact.
Why do you think all the top publications use the same guys over and over again?
Seems your a nobody and nobodies gonna take note untill your a somebody (or a friend of ed ) thats the mantra.
Someone talk about this.. tell me im wrong..please i have become a cynic! 
How can you maintain personal integrity and  identity not to mention a desire to continue in an industry, if you have to go out begging for prestige work from people who dont give a f*@K?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1st want to say what a wonderful site this is here,it might just be my saviour,just when i thought all was lost.<br />
Why wait tables when you can make money from doing what you do?<br />
It&#8217;s foolish to say make money else where while you are waiting for your big break..its not hollywood and waiting tables is never going to even match a 1/4 page rate you gotta eat and as iblink said why not work at doing what you enjoy?</p>
<p>I would encourage all young photographers to get what work you can to start with, get used to dealing with clients use every job as a test, a stepping stone,but above all do it to the best of your ability dont be cynical and precious.<br />
Use every experience for personal testing ground and growth.<br />
You might just protect your name and image for too long then.. wham you hit 35/40 you have evolved and no longer have the inclination or strength emotionally or physically to do the daily schmooze with these &#8220;arty&#8221; jobsworths with no personal refrences.<br />
If only i could tell you of  the amount of photo EDs/ADs i met over the years who fell into the job with no credentials via some obscure connection to the media.<br />
Lots of these guys wouldnt know a true visionary if they saw one they often come in from nowhere and learn the blag very quickly then the next minute they are looking at your book (with images equal to if not sometimes better than anything they have in their publication) and saying oh might be able to give you an opening page and your back to where you started.<br />
Why does none talk of the closed network? In my opinion no matter how good your work is, if your face doesnt fit or you have not spent a larger part of you career constantly brown nosing hassling or schmoozing the right people you can forget getting a foot in the door especially at the top level.<br />
Now before you start dont think this is all sour grapes honestly i have worked at top end of editorial and often at the lower with no credit,both got me no where because there is no INTEGRITY!<br />
I had to fight to get every prestige/crap job and hold onto it untill client or me tired of each other and moved on.<br />
The whole industry is stitched up everyones busy,no one takes calls or looks at emails anymore (Unless from a direct known contact or agent)<br />
No one is prepared to take any chances its often the old tried and tested (i.e came up through the ranks together became friends the rest is history or you assisted mario or such and such) formulas wins time and time again, its a fact.<br />
Why do you think all the top publications use the same guys over and over again?<br />
Seems your a nobody and nobodies gonna take note untill your a somebody (or a friend of ed ) thats the mantra.<br />
Someone talk about this.. tell me im wrong..please i have become a cynic!<br />
How can you maintain personal integrity and  identity not to mention a desire to continue in an industry, if you have to go out begging for prestige work from people who dont give a f*@K?</p>
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		<title>By: Terra Dawn</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12576</link>
		<dc:creator>Terra Dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12576</guid>
		<description>Love this post.  I just got back from ASMP's SB2 (where, incidentally, Leslie Burn-Dell'Aqua mentioned your blog) and this was a big topic throughout the whole thing.  Photogs (myself included up until before my education this weekend) think they have to take any job that pays, just to add someone to their client list.  I used to look at the situation as a ladder that you have to climb, where starting off on the bottom rung means doing a shoot for gift certificates and slowly working my way up to thousands of dollars the better I got.  Just based on the discussions we had this weekend, I definitely understand the advantages of being a bit more picky when it comes to accepted the jobs that come my way.  In the future I will not take the jobs that I don't think will benefit me.  That is the bottom line.  If it does not sound like the work I usually do, if the payment does not cover my time, equipment, and creative fees, and if the client just doesn't hit me right....I will not take the position.  (Of course refusing it politely and possibly recommending someone else for the job.)  

anyways!!  Great post!!!  Thanks!!!

Terra Dawn 
www.terradawnphotography.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love this post.  I just got back from ASMP&#8217;s SB2 (where, incidentally, Leslie Burn-Dell&#8217;Aqua mentioned your blog) and this was a big topic throughout the whole thing.  Photogs (myself included up until before my education this weekend) think they have to take any job that pays, just to add someone to their client list.  I used to look at the situation as a ladder that you have to climb, where starting off on the bottom rung means doing a shoot for gift certificates and slowly working my way up to thousands of dollars the better I got.  Just based on the discussions we had this weekend, I definitely understand the advantages of being a bit more picky when it comes to accepted the jobs that come my way.  In the future I will not take the jobs that I don&#8217;t think will benefit me.  That is the bottom line.  If it does not sound like the work I usually do, if the payment does not cover my time, equipment, and creative fees, and if the client just doesn&#8217;t hit me right&#8230;.I will not take the position.  (Of course refusing it politely and possibly recommending someone else for the job.)  </p>
<p>anyways!!  Great post!!!  Thanks!!!</p>
<p>Terra Dawn<br />
<a href="http://www.terradawnphotography.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.terradawnphotography.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: iblink</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12260</link>
		<dc:creator>iblink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 19:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12260</guid>
		<description>In this discussion it's important to make sure the young'uns out there understand that for most new photographers it is almost always better to work than not to work. 

The images you create for magazines will be different from self generated work. Trust me on this. It's important to go through the magazine process in order to understand your own strengths and weaknesses, as well as to put you in new photographic situations. I have an old Harper's Bazaar lying around that has a pretty bad set of shoe still lifes shot on white signed by Robert Frank. Yep, that Robert Frank. I'd like to think he needed to do the front of the book stuff in order to get where he needed to be -- out of the book entirely.

In my career I have shot plenty of 1/4 page shots, but I never treated them as dinky photos. I shot every one as if it were a portfolio piece. Some photo editors never noticed, but many did, and my career advanced because of those 1/4 page photos. Now, except for one or two special columns,  I never take anything less than full page assignments. That is a great luxury, and I'm grateful I can cherry pick my assignments. But please do not think that refusing work is a great way to start. This is where an agent can be very helpful, as a good agent will try very hard to keep you active AND move you up the ladder.

One final note on the comment about dropping notches when working with "lower level" magazines. I shoot for some publications that I really shouldn't work for, because they either have bad printing or are not very luxurious. I do this mainly for two reasons: solidarity with the photo editor, and interesting assignments, even if I know the story will not print well. And sometimes I get an offer to shoot something I would never, ever have an opportunity to do for the usual suspects. I guess a few snobs have dropped me a notch or two for doing this. So be it. As Duane Michaels once said (I'm paraphrasing), "I love to take pictures, and if someone is willing to pay to do what I love, well, that's just the greatest thing ever."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this discussion it&#8217;s important to make sure the young&#8217;uns out there understand that for most new photographers it is almost always better to work than not to work. </p>
<p>The images you create for magazines will be different from self generated work. Trust me on this. It&#8217;s important to go through the magazine process in order to understand your own strengths and weaknesses, as well as to put you in new photographic situations. I have an old Harper&#8217;s Bazaar lying around that has a pretty bad set of shoe still lifes shot on white signed by Robert Frank. Yep, that Robert Frank. I&#8217;d like to think he needed to do the front of the book stuff in order to get where he needed to be &#8212; out of the book entirely.</p>
<p>In my career I have shot plenty of 1/4 page shots, but I never treated them as dinky photos. I shot every one as if it were a portfolio piece. Some photo editors never noticed, but many did, and my career advanced because of those 1/4 page photos. Now, except for one or two special columns,  I never take anything less than full page assignments. That is a great luxury, and I&#8217;m grateful I can cherry pick my assignments. But please do not think that refusing work is a great way to start. This is where an agent can be very helpful, as a good agent will try very hard to keep you active AND move you up the ladder.</p>
<p>One final note on the comment about dropping notches when working with &#8220;lower level&#8221; magazines. I shoot for some publications that I really shouldn&#8217;t work for, because they either have bad printing or are not very luxurious. I do this mainly for two reasons: solidarity with the photo editor, and interesting assignments, even if I know the story will not print well. And sometimes I get an offer to shoot something I would never, ever have an opportunity to do for the usual suspects. I guess a few snobs have dropped me a notch or two for doing this. So be it. As Duane Michaels once said (I&#8217;m paraphrasing), &#8220;I love to take pictures, and if someone is willing to pay to do what I love, well, that&#8217;s just the greatest thing ever.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: dude</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12200</link>
		<dc:creator>dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 09:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12200</guid>
		<description>@25: money isn't everything so the financial worth of a job isn't the only thing to consider.  It's always good to throw your professional reputation into the mix and how your work is positioned within the grand scheme of things.

I heard that Avedon had a general rule that he would not allow his work to be published in any book that isn't either specifically about him or about the history of photography.  Very, very smart positioning for someone established, but it is smart to apply similar standards to your own work as long as you have a bit of flexibility and scope of your position within the market.

Also, I am flattered that by your standard I'm in the top 150.  Thanks.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@25: money isn&#8217;t everything so the financial worth of a job isn&#8217;t the only thing to consider.  It&#8217;s always good to throw your professional reputation into the mix and how your work is positioned within the grand scheme of things.</p>
<p>I heard that Avedon had a general rule that he would not allow his work to be published in any book that isn&#8217;t either specifically about him or about the history of photography.  Very, very smart positioning for someone established, but it is smart to apply similar standards to your own work as long as you have a bit of flexibility and scope of your position within the market.</p>
<p>Also, I am flattered that by your standard I&#8217;m in the top 150.  Thanks.  <img src='http://aphotoeditor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Saying YES &#124; Jono Fisher - Photographer (blog)</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12059</link>
		<dc:creator>Saying YES &#124; Jono Fisher - Photographer (blog)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12059</guid>
		<description>[...] can read a really, really good post on A Photo Editor. A response was written about that post by A Visual Society recently. I resisted the urge to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] can read a really, really good post on A Photo Editor. A response was written about that post by A Visual Society recently. I resisted the urge to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stefan Falke</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12042</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan Falke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/04/turning-down-jobs/#comment-12042</guid>
		<description>...these are luxury problems at this time and age, does nobody have to pay the rent anymore ?  How many photographers do really have the option of turning down jobs ? You are talking about the upper 150 here...I turn down any job that I think I cannot fulfill or isn't worth it financially, but that's about it. And I am having fun with the rest !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;these are luxury problems at this time and age, does nobody have to pay the rent anymore ?  How many photographers do really have the option of turning down jobs ? You are talking about the upper 150 here&#8230;I turn down any job that I think I cannot fulfill or isn&#8217;t worth it financially, but that&#8217;s about it. And I am having fun with the rest !!!</p>
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