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	<title>Comments on: Copyright Debate</title>
	<atom:link href="http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/</link>
	<description>Photography Director Rob Haggart</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: d.</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-19400</link>
		<dc:creator>d.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 14:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-19400</guid>
		<description>I am an editorial photographer and was wondering what the limitations were as far as photos and paintings in the background of editorial shots goes. Say I am shooting a portrait in an office and the background has a large painting in it? Am I infringing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an editorial photographer and was wondering what the limitations were as far as photos and paintings in the background of editorial shots goes. Say I am shooting a portrait in an office and the background has a large painting in it? Am I infringing?</p>
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		<title>By: Dorean</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-10019</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-10019</guid>
		<description>It astonishes me how few people actually understand their rights as copyright holders, they either don't realize that, as a photographer, they own the copyright the moment the shutter snaps or they think their copyright is iron clad and try to hold the rights not only over their image but over the entire concept (whether it was original or taken from someone else).

Fair Use was designed more to abide by the freedom of the press so that someone writing a commentary on a piece of work could reproduce the work as a citation, and for educators so that they could reproduce the work for the purpose of cultural education - both without having to go through the hassle of tracking down the owner and asking for permissions and having to pay untold monies in doing so.

Fair Use does not cover "borrowing" or "hot linking" images for use on personal websites, digital manipulations, inclusions, or distortions of an original work to be distributed as a secondary work, or anything outside the scope of informative critiques and educational analysis.

At the same time, copyrights do not give the creator the ability to sue a person who exercises fair use correctly for untold amounts of money, or another artist who had a similar idea and executed it in their own fashion.

The advent of digital technology has not changed fair use, only increased the number of uninformed individuals on the playing field who think they know the rules and like to make as much noise to have the attention on them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It astonishes me how few people actually understand their rights as copyright holders, they either don&#8217;t realize that, as a photographer, they own the copyright the moment the shutter snaps or they think their copyright is iron clad and try to hold the rights not only over their image but over the entire concept (whether it was original or taken from someone else).</p>
<p>Fair Use was designed more to abide by the freedom of the press so that someone writing a commentary on a piece of work could reproduce the work as a citation, and for educators so that they could reproduce the work for the purpose of cultural education - both without having to go through the hassle of tracking down the owner and asking for permissions and having to pay untold monies in doing so.</p>
<p>Fair Use does not cover &#8220;borrowing&#8221; or &#8220;hot linking&#8221; images for use on personal websites, digital manipulations, inclusions, or distortions of an original work to be distributed as a secondary work, or anything outside the scope of informative critiques and educational analysis.</p>
<p>At the same time, copyrights do not give the creator the ability to sue a person who exercises fair use correctly for untold amounts of money, or another artist who had a similar idea and executed it in their own fashion.</p>
<p>The advent of digital technology has not changed fair use, only increased the number of uninformed individuals on the playing field who think they know the rules and like to make as much noise to have the attention on them.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian R. Hischier</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-7239</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian R. Hischier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-7239</guid>
		<description>Mr. Haggart,

I believe one problem is that there is a fundamental laziness that arises from a misunderstanding of what art is. 

Let's face it: most artists never rise above mediocrity (due to laziness, lack of ability, or misapplied persistence), and appropriation art [parody, homage, fan fiction, etc] is their chance to easily get some recognition in lieu of actual creation. To further complicate the issue, they now can receive peer recognition (the internet's true purpose) which, lacking before, now makes them believe they are liked or cool. This is addicting.

The burst of creativity that comes in youth and causes a boy or girl to endlessly copy the things they love is wonderful. In Junior High and High School, I did that with comic strips and cartoons and my favorite movies. But such copying is make-believe, a natural and good extension of playing with action figures or dolls. I stopped copying because it held no interest to my circle of friends and girls found it interesting only in so far as it related directly to them. I stopped copying because my own ideas began to muscle out the ideas of other men and women. I am grateful for the time spent doing this: youthful copying developed my skills in areas that have led me to an interesting professional career. 

Luckily, I had no internet. When the internet says "yes," there is no need to go beyond the first junior high levels of awe. The masses will win out and they get what they want: the work of adolescents, liberated from the gadfly of conscience.

Thanks for many many interesting posts. 
Sincerely,
~Brian

copyright © 2008 Brian R. Hischier</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Haggart,</p>
<p>I believe one problem is that there is a fundamental laziness that arises from a misunderstanding of what art is. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s face it: most artists never rise above mediocrity (due to laziness, lack of ability, or misapplied persistence), and appropriation art [parody, homage, fan fiction, etc] is their chance to easily get some recognition in lieu of actual creation. To further complicate the issue, they now can receive peer recognition (the internet&#8217;s true purpose) which, lacking before, now makes them believe they are liked or cool. This is addicting.</p>
<p>The burst of creativity that comes in youth and causes a boy or girl to endlessly copy the things they love is wonderful. In Junior High and High School, I did that with comic strips and cartoons and my favorite movies. But such copying is make-believe, a natural and good extension of playing with action figures or dolls. I stopped copying because it held no interest to my circle of friends and girls found it interesting only in so far as it related directly to them. I stopped copying because my own ideas began to muscle out the ideas of other men and women. I am grateful for the time spent doing this: youthful copying developed my skills in areas that have led me to an interesting professional career. </p>
<p>Luckily, I had no internet. When the internet says &#8220;yes,&#8221; there is no need to go beyond the first junior high levels of awe. The masses will win out and they get what they want: the work of adolescents, liberated from the gadfly of conscience.</p>
<p>Thanks for many many interesting posts.<br />
Sincerely,<br />
~Brian</p>
<p>copyright © 2008 Brian R. Hischier</p>
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		<title>By: dysf</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6790</link>
		<dc:creator>dysf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6790</guid>
		<description>check out www.whattheduck.net for wtd 395,

dun feed the hand that bites you ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>check out <a href="http://www.whattheduck.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.whattheduck.net</a> for wtd 395,</p>
<p>dun feed the hand that bites you &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Taylor</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6773</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6773</guid>
		<description>Just ran across a summary of the Marilyn Monroe fun, the conflict between copyright and the rights of publicity which now seem to have been extended retroactively to dead celebrities. 

All in the name of merchandising of course.

Regarding the appeal above to think about copyright outside of thinking of money, I don't think you can do it. Copyright is money, without money there is no reason (aside from what, ego, bragging rights perhaps?) for copyright. 

For instance, copyright applies in the USA from the instant of creation but most folks assume you have to register your photos with the government to gain copyright. What registration does is allow you to obtain punitive damages beyond recovery of lost revenue due to a copyright violation. 

Can you have a copyright violation without demonstrating lost revenue? I suppose so but who beside a major corporation would bother? 

@34 above: Rob you already have filmmakers giving away their works, just check out youtube, you'll find dozens of clips uploaded in the hopes of recognition, perhaps in the hope that some band will recognize the brilliance and hire the creator for their next video? Who knows. 

How about the content creation of "America's Funniest Videos" or whatever it's called? Surely that show doesn't pay for all those home movies? If they're given in hopes of a reward for most popular or something like that, I would bet the prizes don't amount to what you'd pay a production company for a half hour of content. 

Sure, difficulty of production ensures rarity, if not quality, and thus the chance for more cash per sale. Few photographs means more money per sale. But are quality and quantity inversely related? 

Go to a sports analogy, what about a sport program that concentrates on a few potential athletes. Spend massive amounts of money on a few athletes and does that provide more gold medals than programs that rely on selecting out of massive grassroots participation? How did/does Brazil produce so many top soccer players while East Germany went lacking? Of course the opposite was true of swimming or biathlon I guess. 

Maybe the same with the creative arts? More kids with cameras may just mean more great photographers in 20 years time? 

Few people in highly technical things = best quality?, large numbers in low technical things = best quality? Simpler cameras means highly technical becomes point and shoot at all levels and so mass numbers is the best way to get quality at the top?

Kim Taylor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just ran across a summary of the Marilyn Monroe fun, the conflict between copyright and the rights of publicity which now seem to have been extended retroactively to dead celebrities. </p>
<p>All in the name of merchandising of course.</p>
<p>Regarding the appeal above to think about copyright outside of thinking of money, I don&#8217;t think you can do it. Copyright is money, without money there is no reason (aside from what, ego, bragging rights perhaps?) for copyright. </p>
<p>For instance, copyright applies in the USA from the instant of creation but most folks assume you have to register your photos with the government to gain copyright. What registration does is allow you to obtain punitive damages beyond recovery of lost revenue due to a copyright violation. </p>
<p>Can you have a copyright violation without demonstrating lost revenue? I suppose so but who beside a major corporation would bother? </p>
<p>@34 above: Rob you already have filmmakers giving away their works, just check out youtube, you&#8217;ll find dozens of clips uploaded in the hopes of recognition, perhaps in the hope that some band will recognize the brilliance and hire the creator for their next video? Who knows. </p>
<p>How about the content creation of &#8220;America&#8217;s Funniest Videos&#8221; or whatever it&#8217;s called? Surely that show doesn&#8217;t pay for all those home movies? If they&#8217;re given in hopes of a reward for most popular or something like that, I would bet the prizes don&#8217;t amount to what you&#8217;d pay a production company for a half hour of content. </p>
<p>Sure, difficulty of production ensures rarity, if not quality, and thus the chance for more cash per sale. Few photographs means more money per sale. But are quality and quantity inversely related? </p>
<p>Go to a sports analogy, what about a sport program that concentrates on a few potential athletes. Spend massive amounts of money on a few athletes and does that provide more gold medals than programs that rely on selecting out of massive grassroots participation? How did/does Brazil produce so many top soccer players while East Germany went lacking? Of course the opposite was true of swimming or biathlon I guess. </p>
<p>Maybe the same with the creative arts? More kids with cameras may just mean more great photographers in 20 years time? </p>
<p>Few people in highly technical things = best quality?, large numbers in low technical things = best quality? Simpler cameras means highly technical becomes point and shoot at all levels and so mass numbers is the best way to get quality at the top?</p>
<p>Kim Taylor</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. T</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6697</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6697</guid>
		<description>@A Photo Editor
You should listen to the "This Week in media" podcast. They expect that independents will be able to monetize their work fairly easily. When you have not spent much, you don't need much to pull ahead financially.


greetings,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@A Photo Editor<br />
You should listen to the &#8220;This Week in media&#8221; podcast. They expect that independents will be able to monetize their work fairly easily. When you have not spent much, you don&#8217;t need much to pull ahead financially.</p>
<p>greetings,</p>
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		<title>By: Dmorton</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6691</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmorton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6691</guid>
		<description>Ive spent a bit of time researching this type of issue and found this essay by Bill Jay rather interesting, its not directly relevant to this debate with regards the internet but no the less interesting regarding issues between Walter Bentley Woodbury (Woodburytype) and Sir Joseph Wilson Swan (Carbontype) if interested go to page 8 of Mr Jay's fine essay: 

http://www.billjayonphotography.com/Walter%20Bentley%20Woodbury%201834-1885.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ive spent a bit of time researching this type of issue and found this essay by Bill Jay rather interesting, its not directly relevant to this debate with regards the internet but no the less interesting regarding issues between Walter Bentley Woodbury (Woodburytype) and Sir Joseph Wilson Swan (Carbontype) if interested go to page 8 of Mr Jay&#8217;s fine essay: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.billjayonphotography.com/Walter%20Bentley%20Woodbury%201834-1885.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.billjayonphotography.com/Walter%20Bentley%20Woodbury%201834-1885.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: A Photo Editor</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6687</link>
		<dc:creator>A Photo Editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6687</guid>
		<description>Well, how does everybody feel about the fact that photographs are so easy to make and distribute now? If the same freedom of creation and distribution comes to commercial filmmaking through copyright reform will we all reap the benefit. I've always believed that the difficulty of making something acts as a quality control filter even if a few talented people were left out of the process the benefits far outweigh their contribution to the medium.

What if filmmakers start giving away their work for free in exchange for a credit in hopes of scoring a lucrative advertising gig?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, how does everybody feel about the fact that photographs are so easy to make and distribute now? If the same freedom of creation and distribution comes to commercial filmmaking through copyright reform will we all reap the benefit. I&#8217;ve always believed that the difficulty of making something acts as a quality control filter even if a few talented people were left out of the process the benefits far outweigh their contribution to the medium.</p>
<p>What if filmmakers start giving away their work for free in exchange for a credit in hopes of scoring a lucrative advertising gig?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul McEvoy</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6686</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul McEvoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6686</guid>
		<description>@Bruce DeBoer wrote: However, as it stands, are there any inspiring cases that anyone can offer where honest passionate creatives wanted to write, photograph, draw, sing, paint, invent, or whatever and didn’t because they would risk copyright infringement? I’d say those who stop know that what they’re creating isn’t original and those who don’t stop also know they are trying to get away with something.

From my limited experience in film making, I think that this is actually a huge problem for independent film makers.  You can't walk down the street with a camera without having to clear many, many copyrights.  

I think this leads to a lot of stunted shots and wasted energy because a lot of the challenge of doing a shot in a city becomes avoiding the trademarks (gas stations, fast food, etc.) that pop up along the way.

Has Bound By Law, the Fair Use comic book, been brought up yet?
http://www.law.duke.edu/cspd/comics/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bruce DeBoer wrote: However, as it stands, are there any inspiring cases that anyone can offer where honest passionate creatives wanted to write, photograph, draw, sing, paint, invent, or whatever and didn’t because they would risk copyright infringement? I’d say those who stop know that what they’re creating isn’t original and those who don’t stop also know they are trying to get away with something.</p>
<p>From my limited experience in film making, I think that this is actually a huge problem for independent film makers.  You can&#8217;t walk down the street with a camera without having to clear many, many copyrights.  </p>
<p>I think this leads to a lot of stunted shots and wasted energy because a lot of the challenge of doing a shot in a city becomes avoiding the trademarks (gas stations, fast food, etc.) that pop up along the way.</p>
<p>Has Bound By Law, the Fair Use comic book, been brought up yet?<br />
<a href="http://www.law.duke.edu/cspd/comics/" rel="nofollow">http://www.law.duke.edu/cspd/comics/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Paul McEvoy</title>
		<link>http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6677</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul McEvoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/01/18/copyright-debate/#comment-6677</guid>
		<description>2nding that the Grey Album is a pretty amazing piece of work that's &lt;i&gt; illegal &lt;/i&gt; not to sell but to simply reproduce.  Not that I've heard it but if you want a copy I'll have a friend send you one.

From my understanding, for the low budget documentary producer, clearing copyrights is a byzantine task, and is almost as much work/money as the film itself.  Even in Dave Chappelle's Block Party (a killer film btw), you see people blurred out in the background.  I guess they forgot to get their signed release forms.  If Michel Gondry and his crew are screwing it up, it's going to be hard for the guy down the street who has a good idea to have any chance.

There's no argument that people have every right to control the ways that their work is used, but I also believe (stepping up on a soapbox here) that creative work and creative freedom is an important part of having a democratic society.  And low-budget documentaries, to me, are a particularly interesting and important form.  I think there needs to be some middle ground here.  

Photographers have it incredibly easy compared to film makers; I've never understood exactly why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2nding that the Grey Album is a pretty amazing piece of work that&#8217;s <i> illegal </i> not to sell but to simply reproduce.  Not that I&#8217;ve heard it but if you want a copy I&#8217;ll have a friend send you one.</p>
<p>From my understanding, for the low budget documentary producer, clearing copyrights is a byzantine task, and is almost as much work/money as the film itself.  Even in Dave Chappelle&#8217;s Block Party (a killer film btw), you see people blurred out in the background.  I guess they forgot to get their signed release forms.  If Michel Gondry and his crew are screwing it up, it&#8217;s going to be hard for the guy down the street who has a good idea to have any chance.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no argument that people have every right to control the ways that their work is used, but I also believe (stepping up on a soapbox here) that creative work and creative freedom is an important part of having a democratic society.  And low-budget documentaries, to me, are a particularly interesting and important form.  I think there needs to be some middle ground here.  </p>
<p>Photographers have it incredibly easy compared to film makers; I&#8217;ve never understood exactly why.</p>
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